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two4hooking

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Reply with quote  #1 
Quotes from Straight Shooting:

When Howard was first instructing my brother and me, he said, "Boys, make up your minds what you want to do, hunt or shoot target, because the two just don't go together.

Target style of form is what I call a static style.  It is basically inflexible.  It will produce results in hunting only if the game is stationary or just barely moving.  There may be some exceptions, but by and large this will hold true.


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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood;if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt

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two4hooking

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I have to smile when I think of hunting with Howard on our Utah trip.  In camp, he smoked cigarettes, fried bacon over an open fire, used "Old Spice" (or the like) after shaving, dusted his shooting glove with "Cashmere Bouquet" talcum powder, wore n o camo, and somehow managed to bow-kill four bucks with four arrows, in two weeks.  Howard knew his game, he knew how to stalk, and he knew how to shoot.


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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood;if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt

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two4hooking

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Reply with quote  #3 
For the serious bowhunter, the longbow will bring him to this style or else he will discard it with a curse, and a vow never to touch it again.

The longbow demands the style which goes with it.  This style is the most conducive to the hunting of any game - furred or feathered.

The long  "hold" seems to fit with the gadgets, gimmicks, peeps, cables, pulleys, wheels and rangefinders - the artificial.


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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood;if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt

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two4hooking

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Reply with quote  #4 
Fine tuning comes from hours and hours of diligent practice.  You see, it's generally the archer that needs tuning, not the bow!

If you have a true Hill design, American Semi-Longbow, fit with a heavy hunting string - well waxed - you have no need for string silencers. 

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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood;if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt

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two4hooking

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Reply with quote  #5 
The Hill style of shooting is quite simple, but it is exacting. 
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood;if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt

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Fritz

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
In camp, he smoked cigarettes, fried bacon over an open fire, used "Old Spice" (or the like) after shaving, dusted his shooting glove with "Cashmere Bouquet" talcum powder, wore no camo...



That's one thing about Mr. Hill that tends to get forgotten: He had style!

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Jerry Hill "Wildcat Elite" 68" 45#@26"
Howard Hill Archery "Centennial" #53 66" 47#@26"
David Miller "Split Bamboo" 67" 50#@26"
Howard Hill Archery "Tembo" stringfollow 64" 53#@26"
Howard Hill Archery "Centennial" #69 64" 57#@26"


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two4hooking

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Reply with quote  #7 
When you shoot the same bow (design), and the same form, basically the same arrows, day after day, month after month, year after year, you develop a keen hand to eye coordination.

If you use improper or varied form, or a change of tackle, all those will work against sharpening this method of shooting.  Work at it - "condition" your instinct.

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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood;if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt

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two4hooking

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Today, fast is in, but in my opinion it only allows you to miss at greater speed.
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood;if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt

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two4hooking

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz
Quote:
In camp, he smoked cigarettes, fried bacon over an open fire, used "Old Spice" (or the like) after shaving, dusted his shooting glove with "Cashmere Bouquet" talcum powder, wore no camo...



That's one thing about Mr. Hill that tends to get forgotten: He had style!


Howard's camp hygiene required regular trips to an icy cold beaver pond for our baths.  He insisted that it didn't count unless you were all the way under.  Shaven and clean, he would dress in fresh clothes, plaid or tan shirt, soft colored pants, and look as famous as he actually was.


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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood;if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt

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two4hooking

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Reply with quote  #10 
Try something different.  Dispose of a whole bunch of your excess baggage, and begin the thrill and enjoyment of stalking, a lost art.

That's the way it was.


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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood;if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt

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Sunset Hill "Nate"

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Reply with quote  #11 
I talked to John the other day....and have to add this "pearl"

He said that he believed the main reason that bow shooters develop target panic is that ..."they can't allow themself to miss".....
"Thereby they try harder and harder and their shooting becomes more and more static in the attempt to "not miss"..."

He said if you learn to accept that misses are a part of shooting, you will shoot more relaxed and your shooting will improve. He also said that he shot with the best archer he ever saw....and that archer missed....no too often, but he did miss shots and accepted it......

John concluded the topic by saying that you can't be afraid to take shots due to the fear of missing....he said you learn to shoot well by learning to shoot with confidence even though your best effort may result in a miss.

Food for thought...

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Mark

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Reply with quote  #12 
Smart men that John is.
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two4hooking

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Reply with quote  #13 
You guys that took his class should have more of these right????
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood;if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt

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chuckc

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Reply with quote  #14 
I gotta giggle when men talk about child birth, or childless PhDs speak of rearing children, or folks that have never really had TP try to tell us all why we have it and what it is.

Aside that, good stuff there.

ChuckC

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ChuckC

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I did too !

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two4hooking

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Reply with quote  #15 
Now, where is that "thumbs down" vote button.......
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood;if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt

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Sunset Hill "Nate"

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Reply with quote  #16 
Chuck,

I suffered from TP for about 7 years.  nasty stuff.  I tried lots of "remedies" that were available before the age of internet.  All that worked for me was Schulz's way of shooting which I continue to this day.

He's correct in my book....the more we try to correct the TP issue by intensely trying not to do it, the more static our form becomes and the more TP has an iron grip on us.   When I learned to relax, shoot more fluidly, more casually,  the TP issue went away.

Schulz's all time best analogy to me was a basketball player dribbling down the court on a fast break before pulling up and shooting a jump shot from the top of the key.....we watch the fluid motion, not realizing that his style is all his own (while tending to basic basketball handling skills) that he develops just from doing the same thing over and over and over.  Fluid ball shooting and dribbling comes from the UN-analytical approach of just doing it over and over until the body and mind blend to perform the action needed without thought.  I highly doubt that a player dribbling the ball worries where the ball is, and where his feet are, and where he's going to pull up for the shot.  NO,  he just does it all from feel.  The mechanics are ingrained from the hundreds of hours that went into developing his fluid style.

I think the best HUNTING archery shooting form is done with just as fluid a form as the basketball player displays.  Shooting without conscious thought about hand placement, shoulder placement, et al.....just do the mechanics over and over for a few thousand shots and it will start to feel natural and the mind won't have to concentrate on all the little nuances quite so much, which will free up the mind, which will relieve TP.   Sure, the form might not be robotically perfect, but then neither is the basketball players form perfect....but it gets results on the court.   MY opinion of course ....  because I have been there.....  and for me, this fluid Hill-style of shooting a bow gets results for me in the field.

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tyfrei7

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Reply with quote  #17 
Love the wisdom guys keep it up.
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Berliner

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Reply with quote  #18 
I am absolutely with Nate. With a personal backround of almost 40 years in various sports ( Track and Field, Ultimate Frisbee, Basketball. Volleyball, Paddling, Archery to name just a few .. ) this is my experience too. Endless hours of repetition of movements, fractions of movements, patterns, etc. until it`s ingrained ( muscle memory ) and becomes second nature.
To top it all off I am lacking 3-dimensional vision. So my body and feeling for a situation ( with the backround of lots of exercise ) have to compensate what my eyes can`t catch.
This is not an excuse for my fair shooting results. Just my way how sports work for me.
To give you an example: Ultimate Frisbee combines elements of American Football and basketball. Tossing a frisbee disc downfield to a moving team player is like a quarterbacks throw to a wide receiver running full speed in the endzone. This happens without thinking about the defending player, the wind, the, the, the...... you get the idea. The successful throw/catch is the result of practice.
Back to my longbow:
I get out of my comfort zone from time to time and practice long shots (60+ yards). This is fun too and will enhance my shooting. Just my 2cents.... others may have different experiences.

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Fritz

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Reply with quote  #19 
I wonder what the receiver will say when he's got to catch an arrow...!
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Jerry Hill "Wildcat Elite" 68" 45#@26"
Howard Hill Archery "Centennial" #53 66" 47#@26"
David Miller "Split Bamboo" 67" 50#@26"
Howard Hill Archery "Tembo" stringfollow 64" 53#@26"
Howard Hill Archery "Centennial" #69 64" 57#@26"


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Berliner

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Reply with quote  #20 
Don`t know what the receiver would say, but here`s a word from coach Yoda:

'Fluid you shall be and straight you must shoot, hmmmm.....'

Back to topic.

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two4hooking

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Reply with quote  #21 
"To try to hit a target and concentrate on learning your form just won't work"
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood;if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt

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2015 Traditional Archery Society Honorees Mr. John Schulz, Mr. Jerry Hill, Mr. Jacques Bonin. http://t.co/uqtwL2f30j pic.twitter.com/nZySLMRXwP

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