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aaronbrill

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Reply with quote  #151 
Well, you brought up the couple things I notice too...draw length and back tension or lack of it. I'm 5'7" with fairly broad shoulders, with a wingspan of 69.5-70". With a more conventional target type draw with a deeper anchor point and full back tension, I draw about 27-27.5". With the swing draw I'm only drawing about 25.5-26" and it feels right to me. My anchor point is when my fingertip hits the corner of my mouth and that is my "trigger" to pull through my release. My release is a lot cleaner than it used to be when I had a deeper anchor point and I tended to hold at anchor for a second or two before release. I don't think I'm using my back muscles and the end of the draw as much as I used to. I guess I'm not sure if that's really a problem given the results I'm getting.
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Sunset Hill "Nate"

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Reply with quote  #152 
Much is made of back tension being proper when the elbow is pointed behind you, and you feel it between your shoulder blades. That's more recent teaching by the more target oriented teachers. The old timers realized proper tension can also refer to the rear shoulder/back and the elbow isn't pointed behind you. If your hand recoils to the rear slightly, you have proper tension whether your elbow is back around or not. Depends on who is teaching you the Hill style...and which style you want to learn from whom...devoted Hill student or someone else. This guy didn't lack back tension and notice where his elbow is pointing

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aaronbrill

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Reply with quote  #153 
Thanks for weighing in Nate, I have to say it was the section in Steve Graf's book about the shooting method that you helped him with that made me revisit the swing draw and devote myself to it.
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Sunset Hill "Nate"

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Reply with quote  #154 
Aaron, your form looks just fine. Do not overthink things. Pull with your rear shoulder muscles like you would doing a bent over one arm row with a dumbbell. Biggest thing to suggest? Relax and smile, you look uptight and concentrating too hard. Relax the face, shrug the shoulder and keep thoughts fun and simple like you're playing horse with your basketball buddies.
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Sunset Hill "Nate"

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Reply with quote  #155 
Ldb, 😂👏 you may cause me to come out of hibernation.
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CTDolan

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Reply with quote  #156 
Best back tension tutorial I’ve ever seen:



By the way, watch a number of other videos and you’ll realize, the man can shoot.
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chuckc

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Reply with quote  #157 
I believe, if you want to use and engage your back ( not everybody wants to), you need to figure out what that really is and how YOU must move to achieve it. To pull, you always use your back a little, but to engage your back as archery folks talk means even more.

Try it with no load, no bow, or a very light one. Keep the arrow elbow level we with your shoulder (draw across upper chest level or a tad higher. Never mind anchors at this point..move till your shoulder hits a stop, can't go further.

Feel that in your shoulder ? If you use a release or a loop of rope, similar to what a release does. You can nearly totaly relax your hand while doing this. That helps feel what you need to feel.

Using a deep hook allows your arm to relax more as you are actually drawing a heavier bow. Hit that stop (shoulder) and you can hold longer, maybe even get a cleaner release because you might tend to not pull your hand out from your face upon release.

Not everybody wants to do this. That's ok. There are a lot of forms to shoot a bow. This is one. Hill's swing draw is another. Some (me) cannot do the swing draw properly because our (ok...my) mind won't let us. That's ok too. Do what will work for you, not just emulating someone else.

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ChuckC

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I did too !

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Sunset Hill "Nate"

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Reply with quote  #158 
Sure, anyone can shoot any way they want to, but on a specific Hill style shooting thread, guys asking and talking about specifics that pertain to this style, should get specific answers. We all won't shoot like Hill but we can use his technique to our varying degrees. Since he's not around anymore, listen to the guys who were taught his system without watering it down.

If I wanted to learn classical guitar, I'd learn from that kind of teacher. I sure wouldn't take lessons from a member of a rock band even though they're both playing a guitar.

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Dragonheart

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Reply with quote  #159 
Bent arm, heeling the bow grip, low bow shoulder...

D12E8BBC-F100-4091-A41D-C935B28056BB.jpeg


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Draven

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Reply with quote  #160 
The picture illustrates one thing: the anchor is not defined by the corner of the mouth. HH was not anchoring at "corner of the mouth" - that expression was used to give a rough idea of where the fingers will fall when the elbow is drawn back correctly. To get the elbow in line with the arrow your back muscles will get involved even if you were not told about this - they are involved because that's what the muscles are doing: follow the bone's position.



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Reply with quote  #161 
ldb, My form is very similar to Howard's, my arm isn't directly behind me and when I release my hand it is still in the same place that I anchored in
Because I press the meaty part of my thumb against just under the cheek bone and my middle finger comes to the corner of my mouth, I also use a shallow hook.
Basically I'm locked in on my anchor, unless my head flies off my anchor hand won't move.

This is the most comfortable for me because of a disability I most recently discovered, not allowing my bow arm to extend, plus it is more natural for hunting.
I am not sure how paper target taste, but I am willing to not check that out......Ha!Ha!

I don't believe I use back muscles mostly shoulder and arm, I could be wrong.
I tried like chuckc mentioned, if I drew a bow back until my back muscles wouldn't let me go further, my anchor would be somewhere around behind my ear.

Just info
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fdp

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Reply with quote  #162 
  Personally I'm of the opinion that as long as you are drawing the bow you are using back and shoulder muscles. You can't draw a bow with your arms I don't believe. Now, what I do think happens (and why back tension is such an oft discussed movement) is that when you stop pulling, that most folks are then holding the bow with their arm and shoulder. Then, they have to start engaging the back again to get a good straight in line release. Nd that's the key in my experience. The release needs to be straight in line with the draw/force line of the bow. Id it isn't, that's when left and right flyers start happening on a regular basis.
 As for the archers shaking, if you start shaking, all you have to do normally is start pushing and pulling again and the shaking will dissipate.
 
 At lest that's how it works for me.
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