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Green

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Reply with quote  #1 
I'd like to hear other's experience and feedback on this new material.  Chad Weaver's promoting it as quieter, so I had to try it as I've been on a quest to shoot without silencers for some time now.  D97 and D10 weren't getting me there. 

Took possession today of 1/8# spools of X in White & Cedar, and built an 18 strand string with loops padded to 24 with B50.  I serve with 62xs in .026 and am happy with the nock fit with Bohning Classics with this formula.

X is a blend of 83% SK 90 Dyneema and 17% Vectran.  I've only put about 15 shots across my Morningstar with this string, but I can honestly say this is a material I'll be happy shooting without silencers.  Without silencers, my accuracy tightened up noticeably having only shot just a little. 

I'll report back on the creep results at the end of the day.  Temps are due in the low 90's today, so a good day to test that aspect of this material. 

My only negative at this point is the number of strands needed of this very thin material.  When straightening out the individual bundles after building the first loop, it can be a bit of a pain getting that many strands to cooperate with even strand tension prior to doing my counter twist. 

In the end, I think this little annoyance will be far outweighed by the overall attributes of the finished string itself. 

I'd like to hear what other users have to say.

Edited to add that I only shoot wood arrows.  I have shot both POC's with a finished weight of 525 grains, and Ash arrows that weigh 630 from this string.  These are 10.9 and 13.5gpp respectively.

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brianlocal3

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Reply with quote  #2 
Thanks for the write up Rob.
I'm so stubborn that I'm still using TS1+ and I buy every spool that I see come up used or old stock (which is not a lot) I hope I never have to change lol

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Reply with quote  #3 
Those folks that have TS1 do hoard it!  [biggrin]
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Reply with quote  #4 

I ended up building strings for both my Morningstar and Argos.  I strung up each bow when the string came off the jig, and both had a 7" brace height.  After waxing and burnishing the string, the brace height was only down to 6.75".  On my D10/D97 strings I usually get 1/2" of stretch at the initial burnishing.  After being strung and shot alternately for most of the day, both strings only crept 1/8".  

Been shooting both bows without string silencers of any type......gonna stay that way.
Very nice stuff, this "X".  [thumb]

 


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Reply with quote  #5 
Green:
A suggestion, only wax about 14-16" of the end of each bundle. Straighten out the strands in the bundle before doing the second end, then you have 1/2 to 1/3 as many strands to straighten, depending on if a two or three lay. Then DO NOT BACK TWIST, this is a total waste of time. I don't know how that ever got started. If you go back and look at string making directions from the 20's through the 80's you never see mention of back twisting. Don't wax the body of the string until completed and on the bow.
Bob

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Reply with quote  #6 
Thanks Bob, and that's all I do wax, but the string material comes pre waxed from BCY, and I can't stand that.  I wish us little guys could get un-waxed from the vendors like Lancaster.   This material is of such fine diameter that even a little wax causes issues, where it doesn't on larger diamters.  I do know the commercial makers who order quantity direct from BCY can get unwaxed. 

As for back twisting, I used to build strings in the 90's of B50 and never back twisted.  I don't know if the skinny string trend was where the back twist phenom started or not, but somewhere along the way, the Flemish string making business got real competitive and I'm sure someone said "look at so and so's string.....it doesn't lay right.  Now look at mine".  And that's when the fight started.  [biggrin] 

Actually I think someone decided to mimic the actions of the commercial string making machinery that is used to build compound strings.

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Reply with quote  #7 
Update - I now have shot this material on both my JD Berry longbows as well as my BW Recurve for almost 10 days. 

The string on my Morningstar is stealth quiet with no silencers.  There has been no creep since the two twists I put in the string after the first 12 arrows.  Temps have been in the 90's daily and this bow is strung up and shot each day before work, and then numerous times in the afternoon and evening.  It stays strung all day over the weekends and has shot in two 3D shoots.  NO CREEP!  I consider this exceptional performance. 

The string I put on my Berry Argos (D/R) was a little noisier, but not as noisy as a naked D97 string, so I put a pair of Chuck Deshler's felted wool scallops between the bundles and now this bow now makes no noise.  Literally, no noise. 

I left the string on my Black Widow PSR naked.  Now, BW's aren't known for quiet, but this "X" material is quieter without any silencers on this bow, than a D97 string was with them. 

I'm very impressed with the zero creep factor of this material.  I have also seen the benefit of tighter groups when one is able to shoot without silencers to add to string oscillation upon release.  Shooting a naked string on a Hill style bow has been a goal of mine for quite awhile, but I don't like skinny strings, and it seemed that was the only way to get there....until now.  [thumb]

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Reply with quote  #8 
Thanks for the write up Rob! I've been putting off ordering some myself.
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Reply with quote  #9 
Thanks for the update buddy!
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Reply with quote  #10 
Hey Rob, I was at the HH Classic this weekend and Joel Templin of Jet Archery grabbed my bow ( one of his) and rudely ripped my B50 string off and threw it away and put on a X string....I am not a sophisticated enough shooter to usually pick up on little changes, but I have to say I really like it ( still think he could have asked, but thats Joel)

I am shooting it without silencers and think for most game it would be good enough, not sure about on our string jumping Texas whitetail. If a string can affect accuracy, I would say it has. Definitely has a crisper feel to it.

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this season I am shooting...

62" #60 Black Widow MA
62" #59 Black Widow PTF
60” #58 Palmer Classic recurve
Widowmaker 350 Carbon shafts, 250gr. VPA 3 blade, 225 gr. Iron Will 4 blade, 200 gr. Grizzly Stik Silver Flame





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Reply with quote  #11 
Tim - I'm glad your experience mirrors my own.  I had a few ears listen to it at last week's 3D shoot and if you're not "in the bow", the noise level was unnoticeable to those guys. 
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Reply with quote  #12 
I've been shooting it almost a week now and I love it. It is much quieter than any string material that I've used. It's also a very accurate string as well.
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Reply with quote  #13 
Glad to hear you're having good results Bennie.  How many strands, padding, etc. are you using for what draw weight? 
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Reply with quote  #14 
Sorry for the delay, but currently my bows are 50lbs. at my draw. I am using 2 bundle 12 strand string.
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Reply with quote  #15 
12 strands of "X"?  Wow!....that's a super skinny string.  Are you double serving at that diameter?

Mine are 18 padded to 24, and those in the know keep trying to get me to go to a minimum of 20, better at 22 they say. 

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Reply with quote  #16 
Well I pad the loops with an additional 8 strands of dacron. When I tie the knock that gives me my extra thickness. I end up having a good fit.

I have a buddy who uses 6 strands of 450+, now that is one skinny string.

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Reply with quote  #17 
The comments of others about the quiet nature of BCY X string material originally got me to give it a try.  It has been almost a month now, and finally decided to take some video so I could hear the noise level of this naked string at the shot for myself.  This is a 20 strand Flemish with loops padded to 26.  Interested in your opinions of the noise level, but based on what I hear through headphones, will probably leave it naked.   

EZ on the fat jokes okay?  Still dealing with metabolic issues since the heart attack and quitting smoking.  Pretty bad when you gain 40# in a year even when you're more active......doesn't seem right.  [mad]


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Reply with quote  #18 
Sounds pretty quit to me. I am really liking it.
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Reply with quote  #19 
Well all I can say is I have to give that stuff a try. Sounds real quiet to me.
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Reply with quote  #20 
Update - after shooting this string material on several ASL's through the hot Texas summer, I'd like to update y'all on my thoughts....pro and con.   This material is touted as having almost no creep and high durability.  These points are very true......I have three X strings with thousands of shots to their credit, after the initial settling in the brace heights never changed unless I did so on purpose trying to effect a tune.  This material also hasn't fuzzed or shown any signs of wear....at all.   Now for the cons.  This is a very fine diameter string material that feels more like silk in the hand.  To get a string of "normal" size it takes 18 to 20 strands, and because it is so fine, padding the loops is almost mandatory....I padded these up to 24.  This fine material is more difficult to build a string from because of this diameter.  For those that straighten out their bundles and then add back twist for a well laid string, this takes more time due to the silkiness and tiny diameter. 

Now, all that technical stuff out of the way, bottom line is I just removed the X strings from my ASL's and returned to D97.  This material is extremely strong.....probably too strong, and this makes it unforgiving of even the tiniest of release errors.  For the past few weeks I have been fighting tuning and shooting issues that I thought my own form.....we all hate that mental game, right?  Well, after a conversation with Centex a few days ago in which he basically said he hated the X strings I had made him, I went to my bench and made 4 white D97 strings for my bows.  Immediately I realized what Bill, as well as Brian had been saying.....that the "softer" fast flight materials are where it's at for their shooting of ASL's.   Feedback's a wonderful thing. 

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Reply with quote  #21 
I think BCYX has its place, but its not on ASLs.  Ill never forget the first time I heard rob shoot his JD Morning Star with BCYX and not silencers...no sound...quietest I've ever heard.  I quickly asked him to build me a string.  I could never get any arrows to tune.  I always had 2 out of 5 go haywire.  I changed brace, nock and head weight to no avail.  Switched back to D97 and haven looked back.  Its definitely faster than others but its unstable on ASLs.    
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Reply with quote  #22 
Sorry I'm a little slow but what's ASLs? Jim
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Reply with quote  #23 
JB - Welcome to the site.  ASL = American Semi Longbow, ie. Howard Hill, Hill style bow.
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Reply with quote  #24 
Thanks Rob
So with these X strings your having trouble with Hill style bows getting things to tune and it amplifies poor releases. I shoot all types of bows and the longer they get the less you notice poor releases . I guess my question would be how can they not make things worse on other shorter bow types. Just wondering. not enough to do today I guess. Jim
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Reply with quote  #25 
I cant speak to the use of an X string on shorter bows Jim.  I agree that longer bows are more forgiving of release issues.....my point was that the X string material seems to magnify a "less than perfect" release vs. a more forgiving/softer string material such as D97.   Again, this is just my own experience.....please feel free to seek your own findings and let us know your experience in this thread.
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