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TFlynn

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hello. I have a 68” 52@26 Northern Mist Classic. I am fairly new to the ASL. I think I just bought the wrong arrow spine😐. I got 60-65. I think I need 55-60. I found that the 60-65 are to stiff. I found a test arrow that is 55-60 all these are doug fir. The 55-60 seemed to fly great. They are all cut at 28 1/2” 3 fletch with 125gr. I would like to stay with 125gr. Sorry so long winded. Just a little frustrated. Any help would be great.
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chuckc

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Reply with quote  #2 
Well....for the stiff ones you might get a set of heavier heads, then learn as you go. Use the heavy ones for skwerls n bunnies if need be.

For those guys that did or still do build arrows commercially, can you school me.... yup, add 5 lbs for this and that, under 28" over 125 gr etc....cut to center yadda yadda...but..when your draw is under 28" and bop is over 28"...what then ?

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ChuckC

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I did too !

Madison, Wisconsin.   Public land hunter
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Kelly

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Reply with quote  #3 
Chuck, arrow length is arrow length. The whole arrow goes thru paradox. That said, Tflynn’s arrows being 28.5” bop really are acting like 5-7# weaker. He’s got it correct the 55-559# spine fly better than 60-64’s. And yes, going heavier in point weight will help with weakening stiffer arrows.
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>>>>============> Enjoy the flight of an arrow amongst Mother Nature's Glory! Once one opens the mind to the plausible, the unbelievable becomes possible! >>>>============>
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TFlynn

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Reply with quote  #4 
Thank you for the info. I will have to order some 55-60 shafts. This is how we learn. 😉
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aromakr

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Reply with quote  #5 
TFlynn:

Your bow is 52@26"! are you only drawing 26" if so why are the arrows  2 1/2" longer than draw length.

Bob

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TFlynn

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Reply with quote  #6 
I’m very new at building arrows. Ok guess that’s why they are 2 1/2” longer. I am here to learn so teach me brother. Don’t reprimand me for being ignorant. Thanks
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chuckc

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Reply with quote  #7 
You are good. Your equipment is yours to do with as you wish. Once you are here a while you will learn more about traditional archery, and, about each other. We all have certain things we do, often in our own way. Ask, listen, think...then decide your way.

Do it.....

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ChuckC

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Fallhunt

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Reply with quote  #8 

I don’t build arrows.  I have never built arrows.  I have a 28 inch draw length.  I have never tuned arrows by changing their length.  Fifty three years ago I started out shooting arrows that were 30 inches long, having three feathers, and 125 grain points.  I shot wood, fiberglass, and aluminum (mostly fiberglass).  Other than changing to vanes during my compound bow shooting period, I have continued mostly shooting 30 inch arrows.  I have occasionally shot 31 inch arrows.  I have rarely shot 29 inch arrows.  I do this because I like ritual and routine while despising surprises, changes, and variety.

Do I think that 30 inch arrows are ideal for someone with a 28 inch draw length?  I do not know whether this is ideal and I don’t  really care.  I do not believe there is any “real life” significant downside to shooting extra-long arrows.  I like my 30 inch 1816 aluminum arrows with three feather fletching and 125 grain heads.  I shoot them (i.e., the exact same arrows) with my 30#, 40#, 45#, 50# and 55# bows.  They seem to fly fine and hit where I aim at distances of 20 yards or less.

 

It sort of reminds me of the cock feather out or cock feather in concern.  It might be tremendously important to shoot correctly spined tuned arrows, but it does not seem to matter for my type of archery.  The only thing that I have noticed over the years is that a too stiff arrow will scratch your bow hand.  That is why I try to shoot a weak spined arrow for all draw weights.

 

My best no-expertise advice is “be happy, don’t worry”.


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Southern Illinois
HHA Legend Stick Longbow 50#
HHA Tembo Longbows 30#, 40# & 45#
Bear Montana Longbows 30#, 40#, & 50#
Lemonwood Self-Bow Longbow 30#
Ben Pearson Pony Longbow/Semi-Recurve 30# (Purchased New Summer 1966)
Ben Pearson Super Jet Recurve (All Fiberglass) 45# (New Jan. 1970)
Bear Super Kodiak Recurve 55#

PROUDLY an Irredeemable Deplorable

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aromakr

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Reply with quote  #9 
Fallhunt:

There is as far as I'm concerned a major reason why I don't shoot overly long arrows. A shorter arrow will begin spinning on its axis or recover from paradox faster than a longer one.  And have been making arrow since about 1950.

Bob

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Fallhunt

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aromakr
Fallhunt:

There is as far as I'm concerned a major reason why I don't shoot overly long arrows. A shorter arrow will begin spinning on its axis or recover from paradox faster than a longer one.  And have been making arrow since about 1950.

Bob


I will of course defer to your expertise.  I hope that I did not offend.  I just wanted to offer what I actually do regardless of whether it is a reasonable or intelligent thing to do.  I am certain that you are correct while I am foolish.  But I am just maximally enjoying my retirement.  Archery and bow hunting are my most fun activities.  Doing everything as simply and easily as possible seems to give me the greatest amount of enjoyment for what I do.  I do archery daily in my home, in my backyard, and at a couple of local outdoor free archery ranges.  All my shooting is at close distances.  I mostly shoot at 8 yards, 10 yards, and 15 yards.  At the local ranges I extend my range all the way out to 20 yards – LOL.

I used to worry about arrow tune (mostly during my compound bow days) and all sorts of equipment issues plus my shooting form.  I found this detracted from my enjoyment while not doing much for me that I could readily observe.  I don’t worry about theoretical energy losses or forgiveness under less than ideal conditions.

A good example is arrow tune.  I would worry about arrow tune even though things already appeared fine to my eyes in regard to arrow flight.  I would check my arrow tune with all sorts of things such a paper tuning, bare shaft, etc.  Sure enough my tuning was off.  I then changed my brace height, nock point, arrow spine, etc. (except I never changed arrow length) until the test methods indicated that my arrows were now properly tuned.  After I time, I realized that I could not observe any arrow flight difference or improvement other than satisfying the various arrow tune methods.  I am sure a tuned arrow must be better, but it does not observably change anything for my “real life” applications.  So now I have stopped worrying about all that stuff and just have fun.

I am not trying to pervert or contaminate others with my affliction – LOL.  Again, I hope that I did not offend you.  That was not at all my intentions.


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Southern Illinois
HHA Legend Stick Longbow 50#
HHA Tembo Longbows 30#, 40# & 45#
Bear Montana Longbows 30#, 40#, & 50#
Lemonwood Self-Bow Longbow 30#
Ben Pearson Pony Longbow/Semi-Recurve 30# (Purchased New Summer 1966)
Ben Pearson Super Jet Recurve (All Fiberglass) 45# (New Jan. 1970)
Bear Super Kodiak Recurve 55#

PROUDLY an Irredeemable Deplorable

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ldb

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Reply with quote  #11 
190 grain head on the stiff set. You may prefer it.  190 grain Ribtecs are amazing deer killers.
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aromakr

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Reply with quote  #12 
Certainly no offence taken, however one thing you said stumps me.

" I then changed my brace height, nock point, arrow spine, etc. (except I never changed arrow length) until the test methods indicated that my arrows were now properly tuned."

When you change arrow length after there tuned, they are no longer tuned.

Bob

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Fallhunt

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aromakr
Certainly no offence taken, however one thing you said stumps me.

" I then changed my brace height, nock point, arrow spine, etc. (except I never changed arrow length) until the test methods indicated that my arrows were now properly tuned."

When you change arrow length after there tuned, they are no longer tuned.

Bob


Sorry, I wrote things in a confusing manner. 

I probably should have made things more clear by writing that I changed my brace height, nock point, or arrow spine until the test methods indicated that my arrows were now properly tuned.  However, I never tried changing arrow lengths during my attempts to tune an arrow.

I don't know whether that is any better or clearer.  But I was just trying to emphasize that while I did tune arrows at one point, I did not change arrow lengths as part of my tuning process.  I did not change arrow length before tuning or after tuning.  Or, in other words, changing arrow lengths was never part of my tuning process.

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Southern Illinois
HHA Legend Stick Longbow 50#
HHA Tembo Longbows 30#, 40# & 45#
Bear Montana Longbows 30#, 40#, & 50#
Lemonwood Self-Bow Longbow 30#
Ben Pearson Pony Longbow/Semi-Recurve 30# (Purchased New Summer 1966)
Ben Pearson Super Jet Recurve (All Fiberglass) 45# (New Jan. 1970)
Bear Super Kodiak Recurve 55#

PROUDLY an Irredeemable Deplorable

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Hud

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Reply with quote  #14 
e

a couple You Tube videos from Elite Arrow and Raptor Archery on making traditional wood arrows. The first two are short. Skip the next one.
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NewbieGeno85

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Reply with quote  #15 
I’m with Fallhunt. Once I can hit consistently I don’t care what length, color, grain, spine, shape, or whatever the arrow is. As long as it goes where I want it to. Btw I shoot 340 GoldTip Traditional’s full length (never cut) with 300 gr up front from my Howatt Hunter 60#@28 my draw length is 31.
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Geno Skerkoski
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TFlynn

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Reply with quote  #16 
Thanks for the info guys.
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Tom M

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Reply with quote  #17 
Wood arrows out of a ASL style LB is a beginners dream. You pretty much solved your spine issue without having to resort to spine calculators, charts and numerous test kits like some of us do. Congratulations!!
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Sun City, Az. by way of San Diego, Ca. Bear TD's Wes Wallace Royal LB, ILF risers and various limbs, Vintage Works 1962 Kodiak reproduction made to my specs

I hunt public land.
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forresterwoods

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Reply with quote  #18 
I would go with 50-53# spine because of your draw length and relatively slow arrow speed. (For my 58# reflex/deflex longbow at 28" I use 48# 9/32 wood arrows that fly perfectly! The reason for this I believe is the smaller diameter makes the center of gravity closer to the riser!
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fdp

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Reply with quote  #19 
  The first thing that I would be curious about is why you think they are too stiff? HAve you shot them at a vertical line on a target? ANd if so, and you are right handed, do they consistently land left of that line?

  What are you making the determination based on?
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Sam

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Reply with quote  #20 
TFlynn, you indicated that the 55-60# arrows at 28 1/2 " fly great with 125 grain points. It sounds to me that you are tuned and ready to hunt. I also like long arrows. Mine are 29", and I have a 25" draw. They are 50-55# spine with 125 grain points coming out of a 53# at 28" bow. Don't be concerned that arrow configurations that work well for you do not fall into the generalizations that most shooters recommend. Sometimes it just works out that way, so go with what shoots best for you.  
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Sam McMichael

Gray, GA

"The spirit of the bow dwells in the heart of all young men" - Geronimo

Hill Wesley Special (2, both 65#)
Hill Cheetah (2, one 55# and one 40#)
Hill Big 5 (50#)
NM Shelton (2, both 53#)
Deathwish Longbow (59#)
Archery Traditions Bamboo Longhunter (3, one 56#, one 60# and one 78#)

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aromakr

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Reply with quote  #21 
Sam:

Don't confuse the man because you don't understand spine! you said "I also like long arrows. Mine are 29", and I have a 25" draw. They are 50-55# spine with 125 grain points coming out of a 53# at 28" bow."

Your 50-55 AMO will spine 45-50@29", your 53#@28 bow at 25" will weigh approx. 44#, that's why they shoot well for you.

Spine is not difficult to understand, however some try to make it way more difficult than it is.

The problem with this thread is we have not gotten enough information from Flynn, other than "they fly good or they don't fly well. You need to know what the arrow is doing. Is it fishtailing, cork screwing, porposing , hitting left of point of aim or right of it. An arrow can fly great spinning on its axis all the way to the target and still be an incorrect spine for that setup if it prints to the left or right of the intended mark. Or it can just be the person behind the bow's form. Even an ASL will shoot a range of spines and the differences between 60-65 and 55-60 are really insignificant. At 28 1/2" the dynamic spine will be a couple pounds lighter, i.e. 58-63 & 53-58# 

Bob

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TFlynn

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Reply with quote  #22 
Hello all. A couple of things the arrows I am using are 55-60 cut at 29 with 125 up front. Three fletched and coming in at 520-528 gr. These are flying great. I screwed up and bought the wrong spine the first time. Those were 60-65. I could have and are still using them. I just put 160 up front and they fly a lot better. I think I will keep them for squirrel and rabbits. I already had a ton of Broadheads and field points for 125. That’s why I wanted to stay with 125gr. I also switched from a Damascus glove to a tab. This helped the arrow flight as well. I just received my first Hill Style glove. A different animal indeed. This glove is quieter than my tab. I am used to using a glove so I am going to get used to this glove. Now all I need to do is figure out what quiver to use. Thanks for all your help.
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forresterwoods

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Reply with quote  #23 
Lol. Ok I was making a comment not introducing a case with supporting details. I think my point was it's possible to go lighter in spine with heavy but smaller diameter arrows for hunting and that's all. (The numbers provided shows the arrows to be overspined but I agree every bow is different and and arrows of different configurations should be tried first.)
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Draven

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Reply with quote  #24 
Aromakr, what's your take regarding this arrow spine chart? 
I know it is not adding or extracting the string type, but ... Thank youwood-arrow-spine-chart-longbows.jpg 


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aromakr

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Reply with quote  #25 

Draven:

It is basically the old AMO wood arrow chart and is good as they come, however you need to make adjustments for depth of shelf also. This chart assumes the shelf is 1/8" less than center, and the string is Dacron (B50)

Bob

 


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