ASL refers to a bows profile, shorter and rectangular in design and normally wider than the old English Longbow. You can make it mean anything you like if it bothers you what someone else calls them. It's not about straight limbs, but at the time that was pretty much all that was being made. When archers found out they could make a shorter (more maneuverable) longbow that wouldn't break so easily, they took to it. The ASL was just a product of thinking and design tweaking, mainly to make longbows more durable and less prone to breaking, especially at draws past 26 or 27 inches.

Word meanings, once established as a formal point of reference (Ex. see dictionaries), have absolutely zero to do with personal preference. A dictionary doesn't care what someone thinks, it just explains what something means. There is no 'like' or 'dislike' associated with any definition, its simply a tool to navigate communicating and conveyance of understanding. So why people constantly confuse or argue over what something means with how it relates to their personal preference, and then create more confusion because they personally disagree with the defined concept, is not only illogical but defeats the primary purpose of language and injects pure subjectivity into an otherwise objective dialog...essentially rendering that dialog useless.

It seems that when it comes to objective discussion we can't get out of our own way.

Sounds a lot like an American self bow. Oh, that would be an ASB.

I completely agree that a R/D bow is not an ASL.

I'll throw another one out there - Don't call an ASL a "D" bow. "D" bows used to refer to the cross section of the limbs. Flat on the back with a rounded belly such as a true English longbow. I hear lots of people call a bow (either an ASL or a mild R/D) a "D" bow because it's shaped like a "D" once strung. That bugs me for some reason.

We like what we like. When we allow ourselves to do that magic often happens. Though no giant, i am not tiny, yet i also prefer an almost not there bow ( very light physical weight), anywhere from mid 40s to maybe 70 pounds draw. A fairly petite handle with a locator. Lately, that's the Taipan II. Yes, it is a reflexed forward handle bow. But it has pretty thick cores and is an inch wide at the fades. I call it an ASL style bow, for lack of other descriptive names. No, not a true ASL, but similar. Folks that are heavy into Hill style bows know, but nobody else does. So, In the end I'll call it whatever i want.

I very often carry it ( like....every time) when runnin ol Fred dog and some days i don't even shoot, i just carry it cause it feels like i should.

I understand the thought that a longbow should be long LOL. I thought the same. I wanted my longbows to be long as a matter of romance and principle. I was even a bit saddened by the scarceness of 72” and 74” length offerings from longbow bowyers. I have three 70” longbows and one 66” longbow.

However, after gaining a lot of first-hand experience shooting lengths of 60”, 62”, 64”, 66”, and 70” bows, I was a bit surprised to learn that without a doubt that I clearly had the overall best shooting experience from physically light bows (around 1 lb.) that were 64” in length. Things are as they are.

My favorite bow weighs 1 lb. plus zero ounces and is 64” long. I hasten to add that I am certain that this is MY own personal preference/bias rather than being some sort of universal revelation or truth that I should try to impose on others. This likely might be due to my stature, body shape (i.e., neck, chest, arms), or draw length. From trial and error the 64” length seems to be ideal length for me.

I am a proponent of long bows and have a bit of an issue calling the very short bows, even when made by HHA , a long bow. Now this is only my opinion, but these 62" and 64" are certainly Hill Style bows but are not true longbows. Of course that makes no real difference as some guys just do better with a shorter bow. Initially, when I first took an interest in longbows, I didn't knowthat R/D bows are any different than ASL and didn't care. I love my Hill Style bows as much as anybody, but I also have 5 R/D hunting bows on the rack. They are all good bows, so, as usual, it simply comes down to an individual bow that a shooter prefers. It is an interesting topic, but it should not ever be a point of true argument.

I have an idea.....let's post pictures of maybe a dozen various longbows, each with slightly different attributes as changes progressed onto the scene, then name them so we have a documented encyclopedia of proper terms to use in future posts.

I do not know whether the following photo will be at all helpful to clarify anything in regard to the discussion topic. In the case that it might possibly somehow clarify things a bit more for anyone, I have added the following photo. The photo is of a 64” ASL next to a 64” Bear Montana mild Reflex/Deflex longbow.

The longbow on the far right side of the photo is a 64” Howard Hill Archery Legend Stick straight limbed ASL that has a draw weight of 53# @ 28”. Among my 14 bows, this bow is my favorite bow, that is, THE FAVORITE!

The longbow on the left is a 64” Bear Montana mild Reflex/Deflex with a draw weight of 50# @ 28”. This is a favorite of mine among my 14 bows. This is my 4th favorite bow “to shoot” by virtue of its draw weight. Otherwise it would be my 7th favorite bow behind my six Howard Hill Archery ASLs.

Draw weight is irrelative.

Yes a longer bow has to be thicker in order to be of similar draw weight.

That ASL is at least 6" longer. If that was a 64" ASL, same as Montana, the thickness wouldn't be that apparent, but then maybe the ASL is narrower too which requires more thickness for similar weight.

Oh and then there is thickness of Fiberglass to take into consideration, too.

By the way, in my photo above of the Howard Hill Archery ASL amongst the three Bear Montana mild reflex/deflex longbows, the two bows on the right hand side of the photo (i.e., the ASL next to the Montana on the farthest right side of the photo) both have the same draw weight @ 28". Knowing that further enhances the significant difference in the limb designs to me.

There are very few terms defined in traditional archery anymore, probably because it steps on the toes of those who want traditional archery to be pretty much anything they want it to be. Loss of identity begins with failure to clarify what 'it' is (pick the 'it', it won't matter what 'it' is), and modern traditional pursuers are experts at doing it. In the end it will spell the end of what and why there is no longer a traditional anything.

John Lee sent me this DVD several years ago, and now, it has been uploaded to YouTube.

John explains how Howard designed the ASL.

Lol. I’m glad someone else brought this subject up. I’ve seen it a hundred times. Someone is posting about their Hill style ASL or a question about them and here comes the Bear Montana and Tolke Super D owners chiming in.

The first time I read about the American Semi-Longbow, was in Howard Hill's book. He explained that the longbow made in America, was shorter than the English Longbow, and called it an ASL. I wonder if that was a first or if there is an early reference to ASL?

Howard Hill coined the term. He describes/defines it on page 91 of Hunting the Hard Way. I no longer have the book so not certain of the page. Going from memory, since I've referred to it so many times in answering the question.

The semi reference was in relation to (to distinguish it from) the English longbow. He described the American longbow as having a rectangular limb cross section, vis-a-vis the English long bow limb, which was D-shaped in cross section. Likewise, he noted that the American longbow was longer than the Native American flat bow but not as long, but nearly as long, as the English longbow, i.e., it was semi-long (the term he used) by comparison to the English longbow.

What does Semi Mean in an ASL, American Semi Longbow? And who coined that term?

My Taipan II identifies as an

Hands down my favorite bows are my Howard Hill Archery ASLs. In second place though is my Bear Montana longbows. If for some crazy awful reason (God forbid!), I could not shoot an ASL, then I would choose a Bear Montana. I am attaching a photo of one of my six Howard Hill Archery ASLs among my three Bear Montana longbows. The difference of the mild reflex/deflex limb shape compared to the straight limbed ASL is pretty dramatic to me. There is also a significant difference in the riser and grip shape between the two types of longbows. I also subjectively find that the shooting feel/experience is significantly different. The Bear Montanas are slightly quieter to my ears. My friend's chronograph indicates that my ASLs can accommodate heavier arrows with less loss of speed than my Bear Montanas while the Bear Montanas are slightly faster with identical light arrows than the ASLs.

Well, I learned something from this thread. I thought if the string touches the limbs anywhere it was a recurve, and if the string did not touch the limbs, it is a longbow. Of my 4 bows, it seems 3 are squarely in the ASL category. 1 has some R/D so I am now uncertain of the property categorization of that one. Interesting stuff.