Love em...shoot em...eat venison...

I hope Fred is doing alright. It's been ages since he stopped by the forum and he hasn't responded to my emails...

It's nice to see this thread pop up every now and again.

Straight limbed bows give the archer all the room they need to become the best archer they can be. If becoming a better archer, hunter, and person isn't the point, what is?

Although it may not be the same as yours, a string follow ASL is a pleasure to shoot.

What is with all the "Unknown member" posts? My post is from "unknown member".

I had John Schulz built bows that were reflex, they had an even bend clear through the length of the bow and with flemish B50 strings they were as fast as my Bear takedowns and had virtually no hand shock. A friend built a longbow, he was a 'craftsman' and 'followed' the lines of of one my Schulz bows. He ended up with a bow that was about 130 pounds at my draw, took three men to get a string on it. I was the only person that could shoot it. It shot slow and kicked so hard that my eye balls changed sockets. I wonder what it smelled like when he burnt it up in the trash bin.

I got my only hill style longbow in 2021. It's one of the more hated ones, an ML-14 by Martin. First two weeks I was put off by it for the handshock I could feel. I refused to believe they were that bad plus I was out the money so I dedicated myself to it and learned the grip and form and I still remember the first good shot with it. MAGIC.. the only word to describe it. For 2 more months I shot only that and left all my many curves on the wall. It wasn't every shot but after the first month they were every 5 or 6 without that tooth rattling feeling. Then it went away. A brace height change was also a game changer. That bow is picky, like 1/8" picky. Now though I wouldn't trade it for the world and I can go back and forward from my curves to that without handshock or uncomfort in any way. I believe there is just a purity to it that is unrivaled by anything else. They aren't the fastest or the most forgiving(contrary to what many say) but man they really are Magic. So I love them!!

Fred described the R/D longbow, or is it D/R, some of them are more of a flat limb, some have grips that are designed to shoot with a dead straight arm. Some can be shot with the speed and fluidness like a thick cored Hill style bow. Some are more draw length particular, as in a varied draw and release will show more variance than what a 'D' style longbow would produce. I shot a few of Fred's bows, they were pretty good, but I still preferred my Schulz bows. An acquaintance made a longbow, straight, he needed to use a pry bar and three friends to string it. They tillered it using a block and tackle and cable bolted to the overhead floor joists to draw it for bend when tillering. He took it to a shoot to show i off, he could not draw it or even string it at the shoot. It took everything I had to string and I used a bow loader. I guessed it was about 150 pounds, my go to bow was an 89 pound Kramer built Big5, a very good bow, but not a speed demon. I shot that home made beast a few times, shooting Microflite 12s. It kicked so hard, I couldn't hang on to it. Even though I drew to the point the bow had terribly slow cast. My 89 pound Big 5 was gentle compared to it. My Schulz built bows were even more gentle in hand than the Kramer Big 5 and faster. There are variations in ASLs from one maker to another, sometimes even from one bow to the next from the same company. The problem I have is, if you are careful, you only need one that fits you. I have tried to shoot them to death over the years, it cannot be done.

I shoot a Yellowstone Longbow it is not a Hill Style bow I have shot a couple of Hill Longbows the Tembo 68’80@28 the first shot there was no hand shock but man my elbow felt it than the gentlemen who own the bow showed me how it hold it. I must of shot it 50 times or more I get one now that I am retired may be a Yellowstone Old Timer.

An ASL with a back quiver full of arrows is an archery AR15, Bideypoo would make them illegal if he knew.

My first custom made bow was a Howard Hill Wesley Special. I had shot a few recurves prior to that. It did not take any getting use to as they say. I shot where I pointed. That was a 66" bow. Since that time I have come to favor a slightly longer bow being 68" to 70" I now have 15 ASLs and rarely shoot anything but. I don't feel handshock or kick but I do understand what is meant by that. Some people like whiskey others like bourbon. It's a preference thing. For me, it is hard to get away from thinking about 'Ol Howard walking around with a straight ended longbow. It's the choice for me but is is not for everyone. Having said that, I have yet to give up my custom made recurve (yet).

Love the hill style bow. I refuse to call them an asl any longer. It waters down what they are, who made them popular, and opens up bows that are not quite that basic design. Let the haters hate.

Not saying anyone is right or wrong. You like what you like, sometimes for no good reason. I also can guarantee i have two ASL "style" bows, both made by well known bowyers. Shoot one for a while, then the other and you WILL feel a difference in " thumpiness". ( i just made that word up). No doubt at all. So if you shot bow "a", and Bisch shot bow "b", it isn't amazing to me that your descriptions of the experience would vary.

If Bisch likes a high wrist grip and you give him a Hill style bow i can sure see him thinking it feels like a 2x4, rounded or not. I can also see you loving the heck out of it, cause...you like that feel. I took a rasp to an old Wing bow i refurbished a lil while back. No way could i like that high wrist grip. So, now it isn't so high and i can live with it. We like what we like, and not surprisingly...don't like what we...don't..

Put me in the love them category also. And A Tag,I agree with you a hundred percent.

Love them! No prob w handshock.

Umm, I never said an ASL shot like a 2x4. I said it felt like holding onto a rounded off 2x4, well, because that’s what it feels like to me. The dental insurance remark was a funny, just to express how much I hate the felt hand shock of this style of bow.

There are lots of different bow designs, and there are lots of different folks out there to shoot all the different bows.

The thread was started asking the question who was in the “Love ‘em” category, and who was in the “Hate ‘em” category. All I did was answer in the minority on this forum.

Bisch

I think Bisch was, in his first post, presenting his thoughts in a somewhat humorous vein. It's all good.

I never directed my earlier comment directly at at anyone. As suggested earlier, one's likes and dislikes for bows are completely personal and subjective. But as colorful and emotionally satisfying as it might be for those who can't handle or simply don't like how a bow shoots, making disparaging comments characterizing any bow design as 'shoots like a 2X4' or ''need dental insurance to shoot it' would appear to go beyond the line of rational and sound more like vindictive sarcasm just for the sake of it. Such comments do nothing to clarify why the bow design might be functionally defective, uncomfortable to shoot or impossible for anyone else to shoot effectively (which of course isn't true). Granted, some might think that way and if that shoe fits for them than so be it, but it's hardly fair to the bowyer or other current or potential Hill-style bow fans to scattergun the design based purely on a bad experience, inability to accurately shoot it or personal dislike for it. Better to just say "It's not for me' and move on.

Point being, love and hate are emotional realities but not having good personal results with a bow design shouldn't produce rant-based condemnations of it. Offering reasonable explanations of specific issues after spending reasonable time shooting these bows seems much fairer and would certainly be more useful to those who are interested in the design. It might even make it easier (through constructive feedback) for naysayers to discover why they have difficulty or are unable to shoot these bows well...a learning experience for all.

Since I’m the only one on this thread that is in the “Hate Them“ group, I’m gonna assume some of your post was directed at me. I never said the bows weren’t quality tools, or that they were crap. I just don’t like them because they don’t fit my way of shooting.

And anyone who will argue that an ASL bow does not have a bit more hand shock than most recurves or D/R longbows is just kidding himself or in denial!!!

Bisch

ASLs are like any other bow, some folks like'em and some don't. The term ASL like the term traditional remains largely undefined and misunderstood today except for individual preferences voiced for what it means to them personally...not a good way to respect the dictionary or facilitate a rational discussion, but it is what it is. It's a shame really, because intentional use of gray area logic due to intentional lack of clarity creates much misunderstanding in threads like this one about how good or bad a product or method is, or even 'what' it is. And like most things, those that either don't have the patience or skill to learn how to master the item or product (like a Hill style bow) often resort to clever (word) sarcasms about how poor or uncomfortable it is in general...as if since they can't quite 'get it' it must be so for everyone. Such logic has much less to do with the item itself and alot to do with the quality (or lack thereof) of it's application. The "I can't shoot it so it's a piece of crap' theory of misguided reality.

Not always, but usually it's the shooter not the bow that reflects flaws in whatever the end results are. Human nature is omnipotent in it's staunch resistance to self-criticism, and shooting a bow is no different.

BTW, no matter how well or poorly Hill-style bows shoot for any given individual (or any given method of drawing, anchoring or 'aiming'), a bow with reflex off the riser really isn't a Hill-style design as much as it is a mild reflex-deflex design. Not the same thing. But this is just another opinion in a sea of em'.

I love my two ASL bows. A Northern Mist Classic and a JD Berry Morning Star. My recurves have been setting in the rack collecting dust for the last 6 years when I started shooting the Long Bow. They are pure simplicity and elegance and such a joy to shoot!