I posted this question on ArcheryTalk, but I'm interested in the opinions on TAS since I am shooting an ASL.
I settled on getting an SAS Pioneer ASL to start getting back into archery, and making sure my joints are going to be cool with me doing this. I went for a low poundage: 29# at 28" -- 34# OTF. Originally, I was thinking that when I got form settled in I might go for a slightly higher poundage on a custom bow... but I'm not sure about that yet. Might stay somewhere around here in weight... anyway...
Hand shock with the Pioneer is not horrible, but noticeable, and I'm thinking the less HS the better. So, I want a heavy arrow. (I'm not going to use a bow quiver. I don't hunt, I think they look ridiculous on a bow if you aren't hunting...)
I have some arrows left over from my last foray into archery, and I have 3 shafts that seem to be pretty close to what I wanted, so I thought I would start there. But I'm getting a little frustrated with them, and I am thinking it might be better to start over, and I am looking for advice.
Ideally, I would like a heavier arrow with a light enough spine to fly straight out of my Pioneer Longbow -- they say it is cut to center... but I'm not sure. Might be a little less than that. I'm open to all suggestions, though I really don't want wood arrows -- only because in the past I had issues keeping wood arrows straight. I have several different tips -- from 80 gr to 250. For shafts, I have: Easton Legacy XX75 (2018) Easton Platinum Plus (2016) Carbon Express Predator 2040 When trying to build arrows that are heavy with the above parts, I seem to be getting arrows too stiff. If I put the 250 grain points on the XX75s they seem to shoot all right, but that seems like an Extreme FOC. And they have a really steep trajectory drop off.
I'm also noticing that the arrows are swaying side to side in flight of about 15 yards. Hitting center, but fighting to get there. I'm thinking that's over spined?. Nothing I have tried so far has given me a good flight on the Platinum plus, which surprises me. I left them uncut so they are 32" long. They came with 80 grain NIBB points, and that setup seems to be too stiff, even at 32" length (they are shooting way left). As for what kind of shooting I am doing, I'm just trying to get a good backyard setup where I can experiment with form. Eventually I would like to go to local 3D shoots, and some indoor shoots. I don't think we have any field archery nearby, but I'm not sure. I don't hunt. So this will all be paper and foam, not skin and fur. On Archery talk, someone suggested Black Eagle Vintage at 500 or 600 spine. While checking them out, I noticed "some guy" named Darren Nunes with a 5-star review of them, so that seems like a pretty good endorsement.
Anyone have anything else I should consider?
Fallhunt, it sounds like you shoot like Josh Miller (Styk Man Archery) on YouTube and he's a heck of a shot. He shows a good view of his bow grip.
OK. Fall Hunt. I should have read a little more carefully.
Larry....I say it ( ring and middle fingers) cause I do it. I also carry a suitcase that way. Seems to me that's the center line of the bow.
The one thing we can all agree on is those ASLs especially those backset ASLs kick like a mule. I shot my JD Berrys today, I really don't know why I practice so much, I have not hardly shot in two months and it is like nothing has changed That kick like a mule Morningstar wrecked two refurbished 1918s in the first two 4 arrow groups from 18 yards. I blame the deer target, the arrows stick in it too straight. I am afraid these two from now are just tomato stakes. yus kidding don't ya no, but I have shot ASLs that kicked so hard they could change your eye dominance.
Fall Hunt. What you're describing is just a high wrist grip, but you're doing it on a low wrist bow. G.F. Asbel in his first book on instinctive shooting advocated the same. That's before he had much experience shooting a longbow/ASL though.
I will chime in yet again about my method of holding the grip in regard to accuracy and hand shock. I have straight grips on all of my ASLs. I hold the grips with a low wrist grip position in regard to the pressure of the grip against my hand due to my outstretched bow arm. However, I only hold/squeeze the grip up high with a combination of my index finger and thumb both encircling the top of the grip while my middle finger, ring finger, and little finger just hang naturally relaxed. I get zero hand shock from that method of holding the grip while my shots are accurate left to right.
Over the years many expert ASL shooters have promoted a low wrist grip position while only squeezing the grip with the ring finger and little finger. I have so far never read about anyone else promoting my type of hold. That should probably tell me something. I have tried shooting with the more favored squeezing the grip with the bottom two fingers. I can do that. I feel zero hand shock. My shots are accurate from left to right. However, that grip feels so unnatural and uncomfortable to me. I am reasonable sure that this is only because I have developed a "bad" habit of shooting the bow "wrong" for so long. But that is okay. It works for me.
I shoot my bow arm with a bent elbow. I have a 28" draw length despite my stature because my body shape causes me to anchor on my earlobe in order to get proper alignment of my string arm elbow with the line of the arrow. Another possible reason for my unusually long draw length might be because I hold my head perfectly erect with my eyes completely straight forward toward the target. I have very poor partial vision in my dominant right eye even with corrective lenses. I cant my bow, but I do not cant my head at all.
Re low stretch strings, I use D-97, but there are lots of others that will also work.
I have found that the advice on how to grip an ASL as stated by Kelly above to be sound. A solid, low grip helps a lot in reducing hand shock. When I hear somebody at a shoot complaining about severe hand shock, I start thinking I might be on the verge of a good deal on a good used bow.
There are two things that can be done for handshock. 1. Get a longbow that is properly designed and built correctly. Of course, that you can not control. 2. You make sure you're grip is heel down and using the bottom two fingers to squeeze the grip.
RE: Your draw length are you using a straight elbow or bent one?
It was suggested by someone here for me to place a piece of packaging foam on the grip and wrapping it with grip tape. It’s the foam sheet material that is sold for packing dishes for long moves.
If the feather touching your nose is your anchor point, you're drawing a lot less than 31.5 inches. Regardless, folks have already provided arrow spines that should work -- 1816s in aluminum, .700 or .800 spine in carbon. About 40-45# in wood will also work. I'm pretty sure they'll be long enough for you.
In addition, you can go to a low-stretch string, if one already isn't on the bow, to reduce hand shock further.
At 9.3 GPU a 31" shaft is around 288 GB, plus feathers and nock and insert, and with 125 up front it will be over 423 GB. For a 34# bow that is in the neighborhood of 12.15 gpp. Right where you need it. Adding a bit of weight to the bow itself could also help with shock.
I am not any sort of expert such that you are probably getting better advice from above. I like to communicate, so I will throw in my two cents.
Shaft length, point weight (plus insert weight), fletching size and weight with nock, plus other variables (e.g., string nock location, type of string, strands in string, shooting form etc.) are all also possible factors in choosing the right arrow for your purposes. I have four 30# longbows (2 are ASLs and 2 are reflex/deflex hybrid longbows).
You probably will not be happy with the arrow weights. But in general, all four of my 30# longbows prefer the range of 700 spine to 800 spine arrow shafts when cut to 30 inches, with a 125-grain point, and with three 4-inch feathers. I like aluminum, so I shoot Easton Camo Hunter 1816 shafts (756 spine and 9.3 grains per inch) from those bows.
In regard to too much hand shock due to the light arrows, none of my 30# longbows have any perceptible hand shock with the 1816 arrows. One 30# longbow is a self-bow ASL. One 30# longbow is a Ben Pearson Archery. One 30# longbow is a Bear Archery. One 30# longbow is a Howard Hill Archery ASL. That is a decent range of different 30# longbows with no hand shock from 1816 arrows.
Mark...where I was going with my earlier comment is perspective. You don't need 600 and 700 grain arrows for that bow, even though almost all of my arrows are in or near that range, shooting between 55 and 65 most times. Yes, tame that bow, but also give it a chance to shine.
" And when I rotate my shoulder using my back muscles, my anchor point goes waaay back. IDK. " Engaging the back muscles does not lead to a longer draw. You can engage the back, drawing to your nose, and I don't think your going to injure your back pulling 34#.